Tibetan Translators Course, Chat Transcript

2005-02-07

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<AndreaLe>	Hi

<AnneS>	Hi Andrea.

<ChuckVedo>	Hiya, Andrea !

<AnneS>	Have you been there, Chuck?

<ChuckVedo>	Yes, twice.

<patti>	hi andrea..chuck was just saying that there's agreat thangka exhibit
in new york

<ChuckVedo>	It's an incredible collection

<AndreaLe>	nice

<AnneS>	Was that a yes?

<ChuckVedo>	yes, Anne - I've been there twice already.

<AnneS>	Wow. I'll have to take myself down there sometime. Where is it?

<ChuckVedo>	The corner of 7th Avenue and West 17th Street.

<AnneS>	Oh Good location. Somehow I got the idea it was in the Bronx.

<ChuckVedo>	they have a web site, too - I think it's www.rmanyc.org

<patti>	thanks, that's about the only way i'll get there

<ChuckVedo>	someday, Patti !

<patti>	well, one never knows

<AnneS>	Isn't Gene Smith's manuscript there too?

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<patti>	hi pete!

<ChuckVedo>	I just pulled it up - it's "live".

<PeteUlint>	Hi... sorry I'm late...

<patti>	only missed us all milling about smartly

<ChuckVedo>	Hi, Pete !

<ChuckVedo>	Who is Gene Smith, Anne ?

<AnneS>	Hi Pete. We haven't started yet.

<AnneS>	Oh. There's the Rubin site. Very cool.

<AndreaLe>	That's the lama bell!

<AnneS>	Gene Smith worked in the 50's, 60's  and still collecting Tibetan
texts in India, Nepal etc for the Library of Congress. There are are 7(?)
libraries in the country that are repositories for the collections.

<ChuckVedo>	Thanks, Anne. I don't know of any manuscripts at the Rubin. But
lots and lots and lots of thangkas.

<ChuckVedo>	There seemed to be at least 1 thangka of every major figure in
Tibetan Buddhism.

<ChuckVedo>	Name someone - they seem to be there.

<AnneS>	Wonderful.

<AndreaLe>	Y'all hear audio?

<PeteUlint>	yep

<patti>	yep

<ChuckVedo>	yes.

<AndreaLe>	Geshe-la passed out a little box of candy hearts, the kind with
pithy litle messages on them.

<AnneS>	Sweet.

<AnneS>	yes audio

<AndreaLe>	I picked our candy heart, for all of us (the online crew)...

<PeteUlint>	what'd we get for a saying?

<AndreaLe>	It said "Heart of Gold" (with a little heart symbol)

<AndreaLe>	:-)

<jamesndey>	what a coincidence

<patti>	thanks, andrea. must have been for you

<AndreaLe>	All of yez!

<AndreaLe>	Yummy - banana flavor!

<jamesndey>	Robert Britton is listening at home -- walked him thru it (mute
button off) he's very happy

<AnneS>	Hearts of gold in our little seeds to last until Mar 28?

<AndreaLe>	OK, he's typing the footnote for the last bit where the quote is
very different in older versions of the text.

<ChuckVedo>	Big seeds to keep us searchin' for a Heart of Gold...

<patti>	i feel a song coming on...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: [$There will be some: The Tibetan of this quotation grom
the Derge edition of the Tengyur differs in several different ways from the
version found in this text.  Since the Tengyur version makes more sense, we have
made the following revisions of the Tibetan here...

<ChuckVedo>	big, warm, smile...

<patti>	oaky, so we went back up to where we skipped?

<patti>	oops...okay..can't spell

<AndreaLe>	GMR: [$There will be some: The Tibetan of this quotation grom
the Derge edition of the Tengyur differs in several different ways from the
version found in this text.  Since the Tengyur version makes more sense, we have
made the following revisions of the Tibetan here: DGONGS PA MI SHES PAS for the
original, BSTAN PA'I DGONGS PAS ; DON CAN ...

<AndreaLe>	He scrolled up too high.  This is kind of tecnichal -- you may
have to wait for the next update of Uma Chidun.

<AndreaLe>	:-(

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<ChuckVedo>	Hi, Irma - good timing, Geshe-la just started.

<IrmaGomes>	yeiiiiiii

<AndreaLe>	You know Heart of Gold is one of Geshe-la's favorite songs :-)

<ChuckVedo>	whoa.

<PeteUlint>	yah, isn't neil young his favorite?

<AndreaLe>	GMR: [$There will be some: The Tibetan of this quotation grom
the Derge edition of the Tengyur differs in several different ways from the
version found in this text.  Since the Tengyur version makes more sense, we have
made the following revisions of the Tibetan here: DGONGS PA MI SHES PAS for the
original, BSTAN PA'I DGONGS PAS ; DON CAN GYI for DON CAN GYIS, DGONGS PA CAN NI
...

<AnneS>	Bodhicitta

<IrmaGomes>	so what paragraph are we on?

<AndreaLe>	GMR: [$There will be some: The Tibetan of this quotation grom
the Derge edition of the Tengyur differs in several different ways from the
version found in this text.  Since the Tengyur version makes more sense, we have
made the following revisions of the Tibetan here: DGONGS PA MI SHES PAS for the
original, BSTAN PA'I DGONGS PAS ; DON CAN GYI for DON CAN GYIS, DGONGS PA CAN NI
for DGONGS PA CAN GYI.  And in the following continuation of the quotatio

<AndreaLe>	n...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: [$There will be some: The Tibetan of this quotation grom
the Derge edition of the Tengyur differs in several different ways from the
version found in this text.  Since the Tengyur version makes more sense, we have
made the following revisions of the Tibetan here: DGONGS PA MI SHES PAS for the
original, BSTAN PA'I DGONGS PAS ; DON CAN GYI for DON CAN GYIS, DGONGS PA CAN NI
for DGONGS PA CAN GYI.  And in the following continuation of the quotatio

<AndreaLe>	n, BLO...

<AndreaLe>	OK, you'll have to see the Uma Chidun update for the rest.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from GANG ZHIG through BRTZAMS SO, ,ZHES GSUNGS PA'I
PHYIR,

<AndreaLe>	I think he skipped ahead a little bit last time, because we were
being filmed for Voice of America.  So now we've returned to the previous spot.

<AndreaLe>	That was where he found a completely confusing section, which
turned out to be a bad carving.

<AnneS>	Page in Tibetan?

<ChuckVedo>	I lost audio...anyone else ?

<jamesndey>	same

<AnneS>	No audio

<PeteUlint>	yep, a bit ago

<AndreaLe>	Jim, if Rob wants to join the chat, there's a way in through the
web browser.

<patti>	me. too

<AndreaLe>	http://www.dmes.org/ircview

<AndreaLe>	(I think)

<AndreaLe>	Um, Ted's stepped out (!)

<jamesndey>	oh, yeah? I'll try it an let'em know

<AndreaLe>	I'm not sure what to do until then.

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<AnneS>	Put on some Neil Young.

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<AndreaLe>	We're going through that block of Tibetan -- the pronunciation and
also looking for words we already know how to translate.

<jimonweb>	yep, works. cool!

<AndreaLe>	I'm so sorry about the lost audio -- I hope Ted will be back soon.

<AnneS>	Patti, Elly, Anthony, Chuck - What page in Tib?

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<AndreaLe>	GMR (blockquote): There will be some who, due to the weakness of
their intellect, will perceive what was spoken figuratively as being literal.
...

<patti>	just up from where i sent you before...9a..about 8 lines up

<AndreaLe>	GMR (blockquote): There will be some who, due to the weakness of
their intellect, will perceive what was spoken figuratively as being literal; or
who will entertain some uncertainty about the two; ...

<AndreaLe>	(BTW, Ted is back)

<AnneS>	Patti - Thanks.

<AndreaLe>	GMR (blockquote): There will be some who, due to the weakness of
their intellect, will perceive what was spoken figuratively as being literal; or
who will entertain some uncertainty about the two; or who will simply...

<ChuckVedo>	thanks, Andrea. Thanks, Ted,

<AndreaLe>	(things are extra chaot-- I mean, exciting here because it's the
end of the term at DM.

<AndreaLe>	GMR (blockquote): There will be some who, due to the weakness of
their intellect, will perceive what was spoken figuratively as being literal; or
who will entertain some uncertainty about the two; or who will simply
misunderstand the two completely.  And the Master, in order to ...

<AndreaLe>	(BTW, Geshe-la has been silent the last few minutes with typing)

<AndreaLe>	GMR (blockquote): There will be some who, due to the weakness of
their intellect, will perceive what was spoken figuratively as being literal; or
who will entertain some uncertainty about the two; or who will simply
misunderstand the two completely.  And the Master, in order to correct these
ideas both through logic and scriptural authority, has undertaken to compose the
commentary on the middle way.

<ChuckVedo>	No problem. I'm playing Neil songs in my mind while we wait.

<PeteUlint>	sound back

<IrmaGomes>	when is the last class?

<IrmaGomes>	yeiiiiii audio

<AndreaLe>	GMR (blockquote): There will be some who, due to the weakness of
their intellect, will perceive what was spoken figuratively as being literal; or
who will entertain some uncertainty about the two; or who will simply
misunderstand them completely.  And the Master, in order to correct these ideas
both through logic and scriptural authority, has undertaken to compose the
commentary on the middle way.

<AndreaLe>	(he changed a little bit)

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<AndreaLe>	You didn't miss too much audio, really -- he was silent most of
the time.

<AnneS>	Audio back

<TedLemon>	Sorry to abandon you in your time of need - a lot going on here.

<ChuckVedo>	Ted, you keep us connected. Thank you.

<AndreaLe>	He's commenting on a bit of the Tibetan that says...

<AndreaLe>	Changing "... weakness of their intellect, will take what should
correctly..."

<AndreaLe>	Changing "There are certain sections where one should realize that
what seems to be...   will take what should correctly..."

<AndreaLe>	Oops, he changed his mind again :-)

<AndreaLe>	GMR: There are certain sections where one should realize that what
seems to be literal should rather be taken figuratively. ...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: There are certain sections where one should realize that what
seems to be literal should rather be taken figuratively. And some people, due to
the weakness of their intellect, will entertain some uncertainty about the two;
or simply misunderstand them completely. ...

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<anthonyde>	more comfortable with what?

<AndreaLe>	RTOGS PA (in the text) vs. RTOG PA

<AndreaLe>	The new translation I just typed in.  The distinction between
RTOGS PA and RTOG PA

<AndreaLe>	Do you see what that last chunk I typed in was supposed to
replace?

<AndreaLe>	Tibetans translated the Sanskrit dual with DAG

<AndreaLe>	SHES PA DAG RIGS PA

<AndreaLe>	Translating from GNYIS PA GZHUNG DON through BSNGO BA DANG BZHI
LAS,

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<AndreaLe>	Do you see where he is?

<TedLemon>	Wow.

<AnneS>	yes

<AndreaLe>	Whoo!  Excellent pronunciation demo!

<AnneS>	way cool

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Here is the second section from above. ...

<AndreaLe>	Now we're looking for the second section...

<AndreaLe>	From above "separate explanations of selected portions"

<AndreaLe>	"Steps", not "sections"

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Here is the second step from above. ...

<AndreaLe>	(he changed it to match the bit from much earlier, where he said
"steps" and not "sections".

<AndreaLe>	)

<patti>	audio down

<ChuckVedo>	same here

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Here is the second step from above: separate explanations of
selected portions.

<AnneS>	 I thought it was just my audio down

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<AndreaLe>	I think Ted's computer crashed :-(

<AnneS>	Great

<patti>	aaarrrggghhh

<AndreaLe>	He's talking about the importance that the translation be as
transparent as possible.

<AndreaLe>	That is, it shouldn't even feel like it was translated.

<ChuckVedo>	what can we do about this ?

<AndreaLe>	It should just work.

<AndreaLe>	He's rebooting.

<ChuckVedo>	how can we help ?

<patti>	it's back on

<AndreaLe>	Tong len ;-)

<AnneS>	Audio up

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<TedLemon>	Wow, obstacle night.

<AnneS>	Tong len for our computers? Then they'd really get all confused.

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Here is the second step from above: separate explanations of
selected portions of Master Chandrakirti's text.  Here we proceed in four
stages: the offering of praise which serves as a vehicle for undertaking the
composition of the commentary; ...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Here is the second step from above: separate explanations of
selected portions of Master Chandrakirti's text.  Here we proceed in four
stages: the offering of praise which serves as a vehicle for undertaking the
composition of the commentary; the actual body of the commentary which is then
composed; comments on how the text was composed; and a dedication of the good
deed of having composed the text.

<TedLemon>	Score!

<AndreaLe>	Aha, obstacles explained!

<AndreaLe>	Can hear this obstacle story?

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<AndreaLe>	Hi Rob!

<ChuckVedo>	yes.

<patti>	yes, no surprise there

<AndreaLe>	Why did it feel like Geshe-la was looking right at Ted and me
during that obstacle speech?

<AndreaLe>	Rob, I'm sure you've noticed we've had some trouble with the sound
tonight.

<AndreaLe>	(Andrea Lemon here)

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<AndreaLe>	Geshe-la just gave a nice speech on obstacles, though, to cheer us
up :-)

<robertbri>	hi guys, my first chat ever.

<TedLemon>	Yay, Rob, you made it!

<patti>	hi rob!

<chukyi>	Hi Rob, welcome!

<AnneS>	Andrea, Are you and Ted sitting at compouters in the back of the
room?

<AnneS>	Hi Rob. Welcome to the chat.

<AndreaLe>	Ted's on the far left, and I'm pretty close to the front, to get a
good view of the screen.

<TedLemon>	I'm in the back with two computers, Andrea's in the middle so she
can see the screen.

<AnneS>	Ahh.

<AnneS>	Is Andrea on a laptop, then?

<AndreaLe>	The room is a long rectangle, and Geshe-la sits at the middle of
one of the long sides.

<AndreaLe>	We're *all* on laptops.

<AnneS>	Oh Completely cool.

<AndreaLe>	Reading DANG PO LA through PHYAG 'TSAL BA GNYIS,

<AndreaLe>	I think that's the bit we translated last time for the Voice of
America filming.

<patti>	yep

<AndreaLe>	Is it already translated in your version of Uma Chidun?

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<patti>	i have the one we did

<AndreaLe>	Aha.

<AnneS>	So we're chatting on Sorcery Net!

<AndreaLe>	Sorcery Net?

<TedLemon>	You mean sourceforge?

<AndreaLe>	He's talking about the Voice of America people...

<AndreaLe>	Changed a bit and then scrolled off... :-(

<AnneS>	I clicked on the link and it goes to Sorcery Net IRC

<TedLemon>	AH.   That's the web irc client.

<AndreaLe>	Now he's going over DANG PO DE 'CHAD through RJE BSTOD PAR BGYIS,
ZHES PA'I BAR GSUNGS PA'I PHYIR,

<AndreaLe>	Ted, did you find the iRiver?

<TedLemon>	Nope.

<AndreaLe>	:-(

<AndreaLe>	Did you just look in the car?

<TedLemon>	I searched the car, searched Chukyi's place.

<AndreaLe>	:-(

<TedLemon>	I thikn it's in here somewhere.

<AndreaLe>	I'm probably sitting on it or something :-(

<AndreaLe>	Looking up SANGS RGYAS 'BRING

<AndreaLe>	(Self-made Buddha)

<AndreaLe>	In GOFER

<ChuckVedo>	Mr Wizard...I think we lost audio...

<AndreaLe>	Urk, he's looking into it.

<AnneS>	Yup. no audio

<AnneS>	It's cause I brought up Sorcery Net.

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<AndreaLe>	Obstacles.

<ChuckVedo>	precious reminders of how precious this is.

<AndreaLe>	Chuck, you get the A-One Attitude Award :-)

<AndreaLe>	It succeeds, and you all say, "Yay! Thanks!"...

<jamesndey>	Mr. Wizard? "dizzle-drizzal drezle-drom. . ."

<AndreaLe>	It fails, and you say, "Wow, this must be difficult! Thanks!"

<AnneS>	Or we say "No audio"

<ChuckVedo>	Wow, this IS diffcult - thanks SO MUCH !

<AnneS>	:-)

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<IrmaGomes>	yeiiiiiii thanks it's back

<AndreaLe>	Yes, but you never say, "No audio, you buttheads!"

<AndreaLe>	;-)

<AnneS>	Audio's back;  you guys are fabulous.

<patti>	yippie skippie!!

<AndreaLe>	Or, you could mix it up and say, "Audio's back, you buttheads" :-)

<AndreaLe>	tattva buddha

<AnneS>	Or, "audio's down again and we're in Dewachen."

<AndreaLe>	:-)

<ChuckVedo>	Andrea, just accept it - we got you SURROUNDED.

<AndreaLe>	OK Anne, you can get an A-One award too :-)

<AnneS>	Gee, Thanks :-)

<chukyi>	ouch Ted

<AndreaLe>	Looking for self-made buddhas in the TENGYUR\UMA

<AnneS>	Where on earth is gopher searching?

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<AndreaLe>	Through the ACIP database.

<jamesndey>	under earth?

<AndreaLe>	It's those CHUD again.

<patti>	ah

<AnneS>	oh. You use gopher to search the database?

<PeteUlint>	Yaa, hey, still working on the updated Gofer algorithm Ted?

<jamesndey>	:)

<AndreaLe>	Ted, can you name your search tool CHUD?

<AnneS>	Under earth - very cute Jim

<PeteUlint>	:-)

<AndreaLe>	Found a big quote in Uma La Jukpa about self-made buddhas.

<AnneS>	chud = ?

<AndreaLe>	Jim, you wanna take this one?

<AndreaLe>	It was in TENGYUR\UMA\JUKPA\TD3861N.ACT

<jamesndey>	which one?

<patti>	chud-get into,included in, entrapped....

<AndreaLe>	,NYAN THOS SANGS RGYAS 'BRING RNAMS THUB DBANG SKYES, ...

<jamesndey>	anne, it's really not important and you don't want to know -- bad
movie

<AndreaLe>	... ,SANS RGYAS BYANG CHUB SEMS D'PA LAS 'KHRUNGS SHING, ...

<patti>	oh, that one...

<AnneS>	I'm picturing an entrapped gopher.

<AndreaLe>	... ,SNYING RJE'I SEMS DANG GNYIS SU MED BLO DANG, ...

<AndreaLe>	... BYANG CHUB SEMS NI RGYAL SRAS RNAMS KYI RGYU, ...

<AndreaLe>	... ,GANG PHYIR BRTZE NYID RGYAL BA'I LO THOG PHUN TSOGS 'DI'I,

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<AndreaLe>	... ,SA BON DANG NI SPEL LA CHU 'DRA YUN RING DU,

<AndreaLe>	... ,LONGS SPYOD GNAS LA SMIN PA LTA BUR 'DOD GYUR PA,

<AndreaLe>	... ,DE PHYIR BDAG GIS THOG MAR SNYING RJE BSTOD PAR BGYI ,

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<AndreaLe>	Got it?

<IrmaGomes>	yep thanks

<AndreaLe>	sorry about the inevitable typoes -- it was a race against time!

<IrmaGomes>	you are great

<AndreaLe>	Did you notice how Geshe-la kindly paused to correct our
pronunciation, which gave me a little more time to type it in :-)

<IrmaGomes>	:-)

<AnneS>	:-)

<AndreaLe>	Definitely a couple of typoes, but it will all be correct in the
next Uma Chidun upload.

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<AndreaLe>	SNYING RJE = compassion

<AndreaLe>	BRTZA NYID = love (?)

<AndreaLe>	LO THOG (might be misspelled)

<AndreaLe>	PHUN TSOGS = excellent, complete

<AndreaLe>	PHUN TSOGS = Atisha (Sanskrit)

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<AndreaLe>	SA BON = bijam (sanskrit)

<AndreaLe>	?

<AndreaLe>	SMIN PA = ripening

<AndreaLe>	SMIN (high tone) PA = ripening

<AndreaLe>	... ,DE PHYIR BDAG GIS THOG MAR SNYING RJE BSTOD PAR BGYI ,

<AndreaLe>	(the clincher)

<AndreaLe>	kRR = cover

<AndreaLe>	Angels cover you with their wings, with compassion :-)

<ChuckVedo>	or they surround you, Andrea

<AndreaLe>	"The crops of Buddhahood are grown by compassion"

<AndreaLe>	He said "You" Chuck :-)

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<patti>	will this audio be posted?

<AndreaLe>	We hope so!

<AnneS>	How many people are there?

<AndreaLe>	40?

<IrmaGomes>	 o la la

<AnneS>	Wow. 

<AndreaLe>	(I'm not so good at estimating crowds)

<patti>	great..there were a couple of pictures on Evan's blog site..way cool

<AnneS>	pictures of there?

<patti>	yes..check out diamondmountain.blogspot.com

<AnneS>	Will do Thanks

<AnneS>	Great pix!

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<patti>	thanks to everyone there...you are all wonderful!!!

<anthonyde>	thank you all!

<IrmaGomes>	clap

<PeteUlint>	yay!!!

<AnneS>	Clap, clap, clap

<ChuckVedo>	thank you so much

<AnneS>	Thank you so much. See you Mar 28.

<IrmaGomes>	march 28 it is

<AndreaLe>	Yes!  See you then!

<patti>	see you all then, take care .

<AnneS>	Good luck!

<ChuckVedo>	until we meet again !

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