Tibetan Translators Course, Chat Transcript

2005-01-28

-->	You are now talking on #tibtrans

<patti>	hi ted and andrea

<IrmaGomes>	oh! anne how would you translate "mind only" into spanish?

<PeteUlint>	audio

<patti>	check your audio folks, i'm hearing now

<IrmaGomes>	no audio

<IrmaGomes>	yeiiiiiii

<ChuckVedo>	I hear it., too. Ted and Andrea show up and great things happen,
eh ?

<patti>	of course

<AnneS>	Irma, I don't know the technical terms. I've seen a Spanish Dharma
Glossary though. I'll look for it. I have some in French.

<AnneS>	no audio

<ChuckVedo>	are you using Zinf for your audio feed ?

<AnneS>	Ah, audio.

<ChuckVedo>	Ah, good. Never mind.

<IrmaGomes>	it's like a party in the classroom

<AndreaLe>	Hi all!

<ChuckVedo>	HI, Andrea !

<PeteUlint>	Hi!

<IrmaGomes>	Hi andrea!

<IrmaGomes>	Andrea-lha who could I contact to get a video of the sanskrit
class?

<AndreaLe>	I have the videotapes, but I haven't been able to turn them into
DVDs yet.  I can't say when that will happen.

<AndreaLe>	All the audio is online, though.

<AndreaLe>	Last term's material is at
http://www.dmes.org/terms/2004-2005/Fall/Sanskrit/

<IrmaGomes>	Yes. I've tried that but I don't know what he's referring to when
he speaks, like what letter he's pronouncing 

<AndreaLe>	We'll be teaching introductory Sanskrit here again next fall...

<IrmaGomes>	cool.

<AndreaLe>	Forgive me, I just don't know when I'll have the time to do all
the file conversion :-(

<IrmaGomes>	yes, yes, don't you worry about it. I wish I knew how to do it,
i'd help you

<ChuckVedo>	In Monday's class, you said something about "rewards for our
patience". Thanks for saying that, Andrea.

<AndreaLe>	We're currently scrambling to get the latest Uma Chidun online...

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<patti>	hi david

<ChuckVedo>	Hi, David

<IrmaGomes>	hola david

<DavidFish>	hi eveyone.  patti, please e-mail me at davidbfishman@cs.com when
you get a chance.

<patti>	that's a 'b' between david and fishman? okay, i'll try again. last
one got bounced back again

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<DavidFish>	if not i could try you but i didn't write down your new address.

<ChuckVedo>	Hi, Chukyi !

<AnneS>	Irma, I've been looking around for a Spanish Dharma Glossary, but
can't find one right off hand. I'll keep my eyes open for one during the week.

<DavidFish>	hi, ani-hla.

<chukyi>	Hi Chuck and David! and everyone else :-)

<DavidFish>	sounds like lots of excitement in the air.

<patti>	oh, okay...peezee@valornet.com

<chukyi>	Yes Geshe Lotar, Khen Rinpoche's nephew is here and Winston is
hearee

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<DavidFish>	wow.  two VERY special guests.

<ChuckVedo>	Hi, Benjamin !

<BenjaminW>	hello ultimate translator to be very quickily

<patti>	this is an exciting night!

<DavidFish>	hi benjamin, techno-angel.

<BenjaminW>	hello chakra-stretching-opening-technology angel

<BenjaminW>	they're here

<BenjaminW>	all rise

<AndreaLe>	OK, you can get Uma Chidun from
http://www.dmes.org/terms/2004-2005/Winter/TibTrans/

<BenjaminW>	and quiet down 

<AndreaLe>	updated 1 minute ago

<AnneS>	Is he speaking into the mic?

<AnneS>	There - audio good now. Thanks.

<BenjaminW>	said Geshe Lotar is Khen Rinpoche's heart disciple, and mom to
Geshe-hla, took care of him, responsible for his Tibetan and more

<AndreaLe>	Can you hear Geshe Lotar speaking?

<PeteUlint>	Yes

<patti>	yes, it is wonderful

<ChuckVedo>	Yes

<AndreaLe>	"The degree to which you respect the teacher and the teachings is
the degree to which the Buddha is in the world" - wow!

<AnneS>	If he is going to speak for a long time, could you put the mic closer
to him?

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<mellon>	We have no way of knowing.

<IrmaGomes>	clap!!!

<patti>	much applause!!!!!

<AndreaLe>	:-)

<AndreaLe>	Translating from THAR PA DANG through PAR MTSUNGS KYANG,

<AndreaLe>	Everyone have the latest Uma Chidun update?

<AndreaLe>	It's available at
http://www.dmes.org/terms/2004-2005/Winter/TibTrans/

<PeteUlint>	yep, thanks

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Now those of the lower way and those of the higher way are
completely equivalent, in the sense that in order to reach freedom or
omniscience they must definitely perceive subtle emptiness directly.

<AndreaLe>	KYANG = but

<AndreaLe>	Translating from THEG DMAN through PA LA BRTEN NAS 'THOB NUS

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Those who belong to the lower way though perceive emptiness
in just an abbreviated way...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Those who belong to the lower way though, who only need to
achieve freedom, do so simply by perceiving, and accustoming themselves to,
emptiness in just an abbreviated way...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Those who belong to the lower way though, who only need to
achieve freedom, do so simply by perceiving, and accustoming themselves to,
emptiness in just an abbreviated way.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from THEG CHEN GYI RIGS through 'THOB DGOS PA'I PHYIR,

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Those of the greater way, on the other hand, are trying to
reach the state of omniscience; and to do so they must perceive and accustom
themselves to emptiness by means of a nearly infinite number of logical
presentations.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from DE YIN TE, through 'DOD PA'I PHYIR RO,

<AndreaLe>	[Geshe Lotar looks amused by our pronunciation]

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because the autocommentary says, ...

<AnneS>	GMR's pronunciation is amazing.

<AndreaLe>	GMR (starting blockquote): The teachings of the greater way, in
order to clarify the lack of a self to all things, present this same reasoning
...

<AndreaLe>	GMR (starting blockquote): This is so because the teachings of the
greater way, in order to clarify the lack of a self to all things, undertake to
present this same reasoning in an extensive way.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from ,NYAN THOS through ,ZHES GSUNGS PA'I PHYIR,

<AndreaLe>	GMR (more blockquote): In the way of the listeners, though, the
lack of a self to things is presented only in an abbreviated way and nothing
more.

<AndreaLe>	GMR (more blockquote): In the way of the listeners, though, the
lack of a self to things is presented only in an abbreviated way, and nothing
more.

<AndreaLe>	(oops, missed a comma)

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<AndreaLe>	Translating from RANG LUGS LA through TSUL YOD DE,

<AndreaLe>	(just a short sentence)

<AndreaLe>	GMR: According to our own system, there is the following way in
which Entering the Middle Way "enters into" The Root Text on Wisdom through
the far-reaching side of the teachings.

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<AndreaLe>	Translating from RTZA SHES NAS through GO RIMS LA BRTEN NAS

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Entering the Middle Way explains the path which The Root
Text on Wisdom presents--the path for perceiving the various levels of the
profound. ...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Entering the Middle Way explains the path which The Root
Text on Wisdom presents--the path for perceiving the various levels of the
profound.  But it does so by bringing in the three qualities of a ...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Entering the Middle Way explains the path which The Root
Text on Wisdom presents--the path for perceiving the various levels of the
profound.  But it does so by bringing in the three qualities of an ordinary
person; the ten levels of a realized person; ...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Entering the Middle Way explains the path which The Root
Text on Wisdom presents--the path for perceiving the various levels of the
profound.  But it does so by bringing in the three qualities of an ordinary
person; the ten levels of a realized person; the level of the final goal; and
the three bodies of an enlightened being, along with their enlightened
activities. ...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Entering the Middle Way explains the path which The Root
Text on Wisdom presents--the path for perceiving the various levels of the
profound.  But it does so by bringing in the three qualities of an ordinary
person; the ten levels of a realized person; the level of the final goal; and
the three bodies of an enlightened being, along with their enlightened
activities.  It also covers the transition between the fifth and sixth levels.

<AndreaLe>	Someone said, "So that's why he said the word 'but' a while back."

<AndreaLe>	Translating from BSAM GTAN through 'JUG PA YIN PA'I PHYIR,

<AndreaLe>	GMR: In so doing, it presents the various level of stillness--the
very essence of meditative concentration--and of extraordinary vision-- ...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: In so doing, it presents the various level of stillness--the
very essence of meditative concentration--and also the various levels of the
extraordinary vision of emptiness, which investigates the true nature of the two
different forms...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: In so doing, it presents the various levels of stillness--the
very essence of meditative concentration--and also the various levels of the
extraordinary vision of emptiness, which investigates the true nature of the two
different types of a lack of any self-nature.

<AndreaLe>	GMR: In so doing, it presents the various levels of stillness--the
very essence of meditative concentration--and also the various levels of the
extraordinary vision of emptiness, which investigates the true essence of the
two different ways in which things lack any nature of their own.

<AndreaLe>	GMR: In so doing, it presents the various levels of stillness--the
very essence of meditative concentration--and also the various levels of the
extraordinary vision of emptiness, which investigates the true nature of the two
different ways in which things lack any quality of their own.  And it does so
...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: In so doing, it presents the various levels of stillness--the
very essence of meditative concentration--and also the various levels of the
extraordinary vision of emptiness, which investigates the true nature of the two
different ways in which things lack any quality of their own.  And it does so by
drawing additional material presented in The String of Jewels and other works
of the Collection on Reasoning. ...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: In so doing, it presents the various levels of stillness--the
very essence of meditative concentration--and also the various levels of the
extraordinary vision of emptiness, which investigates the true nature of the two
different ways in which things lack any quality of their own.  And it does so by
drawing additional material presented in The String of Jewels and other works
of the Collection on Reasoning.  This then is how Entering the Middle Way "enters into" The Root Text on Wisdom through the
far-reaching side of the teachings.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from KHA CIG GIS, through ZER NA, (short sentence)

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Now suppose someone comes again and makes the claim, "The
Root Text on Wisdom doesn't present the far-reaching side of the teachings."

<AndreaLe>	Translating from DES RGYAA through BOR BYAS NAS BSTAN PA'I PHYIR,

<AndreaLe>	BSTAN PAR THAL

<AndreaLe>	Geshe Lotar is covering his face as he cracks up.

<AndreaLe>	GMR: But isn't it the fact that this text does present the
far-reaching side of things?  Because isn't it the fact that...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: But isn't it the fact that this text does present the
far-reaching side of things?  Because isn't it the fact that the main thing it
presents, and presents explicitly, is the ...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: But isn't it the fact that this text does present the
far-reaching side of things?  Because isn't it the fact that the main thing it
presents, and presents explicitly, is the foundation--meaning the basic nature
of all things; and the various steps of the path we must travel; and the result
of this path: the level of an enlightened being.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from DE RNAMS thtrough GTZO BOR BYAS NAS BSTAN PA'I
PHYIR,

<AndreaLe>	Mild snickering from Geshe Lotar this time.

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because the main subject it speaks about,
and speaks about explicitly, is how all of these things lack any nature of their
own, and yet still exist nominally.

<AndreaLe>	Are you guys still out there?  The last time you were all this
silent it turned out the connection had gone down.

<IrmaGomes>	still here angel

<AnneS>	We're here.

<AndreaLe>	whew!

<PeteUlint>	:-)

<AndreaLe>	You're merely so rapt by the teaching that you're silent... very
nice :-)

<patti>	scribbling furiously

<IrmaGomes>	we're cranking up the brain trying to "get it" :)

<mellon>	I usually know pretty quickly if the connection is gone.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from DER THAL through GTAN LA PHAB PA'I PHYIR,

<ChuckVedo>	Yes, absolutely. Focusing really, really hard.

<AndreaLe>	Terrific.  All right you lot, back to work!

<AndreaLe>	;-)

<ChuckVedo>	Putting you at ease, for caring about us, is the best work !

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And that too is true, because The Root Text on Wisdom sets
forth--by incorporating answers to arguments by the other side--how all of these
things can, on the one hand, be devoid of any nature of their own; ...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And that too is true, because The Root Text on Wisdom sets
forth--by incorporating answers to arguments by the other side--how all of these
things can, on the one hand, be devoid of any nature of their own; but on the
other still exist, if only nominally.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from GZHAN YANG through yet another BSTAN PAR THAL,

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And it is moreover the case that The Root Text on Wisdom
presents the far-reaching steps of the teaching.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from DE'I CHED through RTOGS NUS PA'I PHYIR TE,

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because...

<AndreaLe>	CHED DU BYA BA'I GDUL BYA = "the disciple for whom this book was
designed" (idiom)

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because the disciple for whom this
particular text was specifically designed ...

<IrmaGomes>	andrea, do you read gueshe la's mind or does the text appear
before the audio?

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because the disciple for whom this
particular text was specifically designed will be able to acheive the
far-reaching steps of the path by relying on this one work alone--without having
to use any other sutra or commentary at all.

<mellon>	The audio lags a bit.

<AndreaLe>	How badly?

<IrmaGomes>	no, not badly, just like 5 secs, enough to impress us

<AndreaLe>	Oh, OK.  That's probably our world-record shortest delay.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from MNGON RTOGS through YANG RTOGS NUS PA'I PHYIR,

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because that particular disciple for whom
The Ornament of Realizations was specifically designed can use that one work
to achieve ...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because that particular disciple for whom
The Ornament of Realizations was specifically designed can use that one work
to achieve (from among the two sides of the teachngs, the profound and the
far-reaching) the steps of the profound side of the teachings, without having to
rely on any other sutra or commentary at all.

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because that particular disciple for whom
The Ornament of Realizations was specifically designed can use that one work
to achieve (from among the two sides of the teachings, the profound and the
far-reaching) the steps of the profound side of the teachings, without having to
rely on any other sutra or commentary at all.

<AndreaLe>	(fixed a typo)

<AnneS>	Name of Asanga's text again?

<mellon>	Ornament of Realizations.

<mellon>	Abhisamayalankara

<AnneS>	Got it. Looking for Sanskrit

<mellon>	tokpe gyen?

<IrmaGomes>	AbhisamayaAlamkara

<IrmaGomes>	?

<AnneS>	Thanks

<AndreaLe>	Yay!

<AndreaLe>	Whoo hoo!

<AndreaLe>	"A couple of thousand years mean nothing to these guys!"

<AndreaLe>	:-)

<IrmaGomes>	cool

<AndreaLe>	Geshe-la pantomimed a guy sealing a message into a bottle.

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<AndreaLe>	Geshe Lotar is smiling :-)

<IrmaGomes>	clap

<AnneS>	Very sweet.

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<IrmaGomes>	grammar text!!! 

<PeteUlint>	OO, is the grammar text gunna be online?

<AndreaLe>	We'll get that online.

<IrmaGomes>	please??????????

<PeteUlint>	THANKS!

<patti>	please

<IrmaGomes>	yeiiiiii

<AndreaLe>	(I just asked Ven. Phil, and he'll e-mail it to me.)

<AnneS>	Grammar; yea!

<patti>	many, many thanks!!

<AndreaLe>	It's in Tibetan.

<AndreaLe>	No translation.

<AndreaLe>	Still very nice :-)

<patti>	good night all, take care of each other.

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<PeteUlint>	Okay, I'm out too.  THANKS SO MUCH!!! Have a happy weekend
everyone.

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<IrmaGomes>	thank you all! and Andrea, for being our eyes and ears

<ChuckVedo>	Ah, I do not want this to end. But I heard Geshe Michael. Thank
you, all.

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<AndreaLe>	Good night, friends.  Thank you for joining in, as always.