Tibetan Translators Course, Chat Transcript

2005-01-14

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<AndreaLe>	Hi

<PeteUlint>	Hi Andrea

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<PeteUlint>	problems?

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<alvinylee>	audio broadcast has not started yet, right?

<PeteUlint>	I'm not getting any audio.

<pattiloun>	I don't have anything either.

<EllyvdPas>	We're not on yet.

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<pattiloun>	Say, did anyone else get dumped off x-chat last class? It said
settings has been reset by peer, and I couldn't even get it to recognize the
server.

<PeteUlint>	Yea, I got dumped towards the end.

<AnneS>	I got dumped off, too.

<pattiloun>	Yeah, audio!

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<AnneS>	 Is this site down? I can't connect. http://www.dmes.org/tibtrans/

<PeteUlint>	I can' either.

<AnneS>	Glad it's not just me!

<PeteUlint>	I think its been down all day.

<mellon>	Can't connect, or don't find the URL?

<mellon>	Look at http://www.dmes.org/

<PeteUlint>	Can't find, 'page not found'... I think dmes.org is up.

<mellon>	Right, I moved it - that's why you can't see it.

<mellon>	I've been reorganizing the site to acknowledge the happy fact that
we now have more than one term of DM courses to offer on it.

<PeteUlint>	cool.

<AnneS>	I found it. Thanks, Mellon.

<mellon>	Sure.   Sorry about the confusion.   :'}

<PeteUlint>	no prob, thanks for maintaining it.

<alvinylee>	should we open VNC?  or are we audio only?

<AnneS>	All confusinion should be so easily sorted out.

<AnneS>	like typos

<AndreaLe>	Can you hear OK?

<PeteUlint>	yep

<pattiloun>	yes, audio is great

<mellon>	I haven't had a chance to hack the VNC stuff yet - sorry.

<AndreaLe>	When's the applause?

<mellon>	Maybe this weekend.

<AndreaLe>	(I'm checking for time delay)

<PeteUlint>	applause?

<pattiloun>	now

<PeteUlint>	now

<AndreaLe>	OK, that's about a 15 second delay.  Not too bad.

<pattiloun>	601 new mexico time

<alvinylee>	Audio quality if fantastic - thanks Andrea, Ted for making this
all happen

<AnneS>	Mellon,  The link "Uma Chidon Tanslation to Jan 9" doesn't work.

<mellon>	I'll check, hang on.

<AndreaLe>	He's changing The 400 Verses of the Yogi's Way to "The 400
Verses of the Yogi's Way" (underscore denotes italics).

<AndreaLe>	He's looking in the ACIP database right now.

<mellon>	Okay, I fixed the link.

<AndreaLe>	SUNGBUM\DRANGE\RABTEN

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<AnneS>	Thanks, Mellon

<AndreaLe>	GYU

<mellon>	np

<AndreaLe>	(BTW, Mellon = Ted)

<mellon>	Oh, sorry.

<AnneS>	Ted's better than Mellon!

<AndreaLe>	SUNGBUM\GYU\KYEDOR\DRELPA

<AndreaLe>	KYEDOR = He Vajra

<AnneS>	I give up, we're in what text now?

<mellon>	Right now he's reading from a commentary, not part of the main text.

<AndreaLe>	These are what he's referring to as he searches through the ACIP
database using GOFER.

<mellon>	This is just to figure out what the title of that book that's
referred to in UMA CHIDUN is.

<AnneS>	Theoretically we're going back to where we left off on Monday?

<AndreaLe>	He's doubled back a bit.

<AnneS>	Oh, I see. Thanks.

<AndreaLe>	The internet connection here went down about 40 (?) minutes before
the end of class.

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<alvinylee>	internet went down 7:20pm last time ...not sure when class ended?

<pattiloun>	yikes! so can we get an idea of where we will start again?

<mellon>	Shortly after that.

<AnneS>	Good point, Patty.

<AndreaLe>	He's adding a footnote to the bit about the 400 Verses.  Which he
covered in the first part of class.

<mellon>	If you look in the text that's online, you can see what was covered
after the connection ends.  BTW, does anybody have a transcript of last Monday's
chat?   We unfortunately lost it.

<AnneS>	Patti

<AndreaLe>	Elly, can you possibly e-mail Ted a current copy of Uma Chidun to
upload?

<AndreaLe>	I have the chat transcript.  I haven't uploaded it yet, though.

<mellon>	It's on the web page.   The version that says as of Jan 9 is
actually what was on Geshe-la's computer after class.

<mellon>	I should fix that.

<AndreaLe>	The last class?

<AndreaLe>	Cool!

<AndreaLe>	Elly, you're off the hook.

<EllyvdPas>	Good.

<mellon>	Fixed.

<AndreaLe>	Are we a crack team or what?

<mellon>	Still could use the transcript from the 10th if one of you guys out
there has it.

<PeteUlint>	jedi

<AndreaLe>	Ted, I said I have it.

<mellon>	Oh, sorry.

<mellon>	Elly was bumming.

<AndreaLe>	Three years of marriage and I'm just invisible to you now :-(

<AnneS>	One big happy family out there. :-)

<mellon>	You scrolled off the screen, sweetie-roo.   No mash talk here.

<pattiloun>	what's the footnote?

<EllyvdPas>	Footnote: The 400 Verses of the Yogi?s Way: A number of Tibetan
works (such as the commentary by @ on the secret practice of Lo Diamond
?Hevajra?at S5350 f.78A, , claimed that the ?Yogi?s Way? mentioned here does not
refer to the Mind-Only School, but rather to the path of the bodhisattva
practitioner in general.) 

<AndreaLe>	Here's the footnote: "[$ The 400 Verses of the Yogi's Way: A
number of Tibetan works (such as the commentary by @ on the secret practice of
Lo Diamond--Hevajra--at S5350 f.78a, clarify that the "yogi's Way" mentioned
here does not refer to the Mind-Only School, but rather the path of the
bodhisattva practitioner in general.)

<AndreaLe>	Ooh, you scooped me, Elly!

<EllyvdPas>	Yeah team!I think he's doing a search to answer what @ is right
now.

<AndreaLe>	Yo Diamond

<pattiloun>	Thanks to you both.

<mellon>	Oh Holy Diamond?

<AndreaLe>	Changed brackets a bit: [$ The 400 Verses of the Yogi's Way: A
number of Tibetan works (such as the commentary by @ on the secret practice of
Lo Diamond--Hevajra--at S5350 f.78a), clarify that the "yogi's Way" mentioned
here does not refer to the Mind-Only School, but rather the path of the
bodhisattva practitioner in general.]

<AndreaLe>	I missed the footnote -- you'll have to get that the next time the
file is updated.

<AndreaLe>	We're starting with SLOB DPON ZHI BA until BAR MTHA' GSUM MDZAD

<AndreaLe>	"SLOB"

<AndreaLe>	pronounced "lope"

<AndreaLe>	"DPON"

<AndreaLe>	ZHI BA

<AndreaLe>	Ted, do you have Uma Chidun in RTF?  It's TXT on the DMES site,
and that killed all the italics.

<mellon>	Oh, hang on.

<AndreaLe>	"DBU" is, in Geshe-la's words, "nasty"

<AndreaLe>	RANG

<AndreaLe>	'GREL

<AndreaLe>	We're starting with SLOB DPON ZHI BA until BAR MTHA' GSUM MDZAD

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because Master Shantarakshita composed The
Ornament on the Middle Way, along with its commentary; while Master Kamalashila
wrote Light on the Middle Way and the three versions of Steps of Meditation:
the middle one and the ones that go before and after it.

<AndreaLe>	SGOM RIMS he's correcting to SGOM RIM

<AndreaLe>	Ted, any progress on the RTF?

<mellon>	RTF is up.

<mellon>	(just finished)

<AndreaLe>	Changed "along with its commentary" to "along with its
autocommentary"

<AndreaLe>	From 'PHAGS SENG GNYIS to MDZAD PA'I PHYIR

<AndreaLe>	GMR: It's further true because the pair of Arya Vimuktisena and
Master Haribhadra commented upon the true intent of the root text of The
Ornament of Realizations as belonging to the Independent School.  This they did
in the two "Great Commentaries" and similar works.

<AndreaLe>	Thank you Ted

<AndreaLe>	Translating from DPAL LDAN ZLA BA through BKRAL BA'I TSUL YOD DE,

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Now there is the following way in which the glorious
Chandrakirti commented upon the true intent of the realized Father and Son.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from SLOB DPON LEGS through SPANGS PA'I SGO NAS,

<AndreaLe>	GMR: The first thing he did was to completely disprove all the
supposed problems brought up by Master Bhavaviveka when he presented his
extensive refutation of Master Buddhapalita.

<AndreaLe>	Tranlating from SANGS RGYAS BSKYANGS through 'GYUR DU 'GREL BA LA.

<AndreaLe>	GMR: He then interpreted the true intent of the realized Father
and Son as being that of the Consequence School, exactly as Master Buddhapalita
had originally done.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from PANG GZHUNG DBU MA through MDZAD PA'I PHYIR

<PeteUlint>	OH WOW! Happy Birthday Ted!

<AndreaLe>	Much cake has entered the room.

<AndreaLe>	The big 4-0!

<pattiloun>	Happiest birthday!!!!!!

<AnneS>	Happy birthday!

<AndreaLe>	Wednesday, actually.

<mellon>	That was pretty funny.

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because he composed Entering the Middle Way
and its autocommentary--his own original works--and expositions on the works of
others such as Clear Words (a commentary to The Root Text on Wisdom); A
Commentary to the 400 Verses; and A Commentary to the Sixty Verses on
Reasoning.

<pattiloun>	yeah, ted! our hero!!

<AndreaLe>	Please stay!

<AnneS>	yea, Ted!

<PeteUlint>	hear hear!

<mellon>	Awww...   I'm getting all choked up... :'}

<AndreaLe>	Tranlating up to SU YOD PA'I PHYIR

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Now there are eight different classical commentaries to The
Root Text on Wisdom.  And this is true because there are the commentaries
written by The One Beyond All Fear; Devasharma; Sunashri; Sunamati; Sthiramati;
Buddhapalita; Chandrakirti; and Bhavaviveka.

<AndreaLe>	Oops, should be as follows:

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Now there are eight different classical commentaries to The
Root Text on Wisdom.  And this is true because there are the commentaries
written by The One Beyond All Fear; Devasharma; Sunashri; Gunamati; Sthiramati;
Buddhapalita; Chandrakirti; and Bhavaviveka.

<AndreaLe>	Everyone needs to get some cake right now!

<AndreaLe>	C'mon, this means you!

<PeteUlint>	I grabbed some ice cream to honor the occasion.

<pattiloun>	Yum, sounds good to me..a little muchie is very good right now

<mellon>	Yay!

<AnneS>	The One Beyond All Fear = who?

<AnneS>	Independent School in Sanskrit =?

<mellon>	he hasn't said yet.

<AndreaLe>	Svatantrika

<AnneS>	Sva - Thanks.

<AnneS>	Dawa Drakpa

<AnneS>	?

<mellon>	Dawa Drakpa is Tibetan for Chandrakirti.

<AnneS>	I know - I guess not = one beyond all fear. I was going for the
drakpa

<AndreaLe>	abhaya?

<AnneS>	abhaya +?

<AnneS>	=?

<mellon>	Yup, like Abhaya Lakshmi, which is Jikme Pelmo.

<AnneS>	It would be fun to be able to watch this.

<AndreaLe>	I just asked your question

<mellon>	Really really want you to be able to watch this.

<AnneS>	Cool. Thx

<pattiloun>	not to worry, it will happen

<AnneS>	Get that cideo thing up!

<AndreaLe>	GA LAS 'JIGS MED

<AnneS>	video - chees I can't type.

<AndreaLe>	akutobhaya

<mellon>	That's the code I was supposed to be writing all year that I haven't
finished yet.

<AndreaLe>	long a at the end. akutobhaya#

<AnneS>	for next year's birthday cake...

<AndreaLe>	DE RNAMS through PA MI 'THAD DE,

<mellon>	Sooner.

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Now the idea that the "Beyond all Fear" commentany here is an
autocommentary to The Root Text on Wisdom is incorrect.

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Now the idea that the "Beyond all Fear" commentary here is an
autocommentary to The Root Text on Wisdom is incorrect.

<AndreaLe>	(fixed typo)

<AndreaLe>	From DE NYID DU BTZUN through BYED DU DRANGS PA'I PHYIR DANG

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because the text of this very same
commentary quotes The 400 Lines to prove a point, when it says:

<AndreaLe>	(start block quote)

<AndreaLe>	Aryadeva is making this same point when he says,

<AndreaLe>	(another block quote)

<AndreaLe>	It is extremely rare to have/Someone to listen, and something/To
listen to, and someone to speak./And that is why, to put it briefly,/This cycle
of pain neither has an end/Nor has no end.

<AndreaLe>	From DES RTZA through PA'I PHYIR DANG,

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And it's moreover true because there are a great many
sections in The Root Text on Wisdom which this commentary simply fails to
explain.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from RANG 'GREL through TZAM YANG DRANGS PA MED PA'I
PHYIR,

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And it's further true since both the autocommentary and
Clear Words contain numerous sections that utilize the better sections of
Master Bhavaviveka's commentary--whereas they fail to quote even a single word
of Beyond All Fear. 

<AndreaLe>	Adding a footnote after "autocommentary"...

<AndreaLe>	GMR: [$The autocommentary: Meaning the autocommentary to
Entering the Middle Way.]

<AndreaLe>	Translating from RANG LUGS through 'CHAD PA YIN TE

<AndreaLe>	GMR: Now to present the position which we ourselves accept, we are
only going to use one of these eight commentaries, and that is Entering the
Middle Way, along with the autocommentary.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from DPAL LDAN ZLA BA through SKYES BU YIN PA'I PHYIR;

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And we are going to do so because the glorious Chandrakirti
learned The Root Text on Wisdom directly from the protector Nagarjuna; and
because he is a being of truth who grasped its meaning totally.

<AndreaLe>	Translating from JO BO'I DBU MA through GZHAN DU MIN, ,ZHES DANG,

<AndreaLe>	GMR: And this is true because Lord Atisha, in tis Two Truths,
makes the following statement:

<AndreaLe>	(block quote)

<AndreaLe>	Now you may ask whether there was anyone/Who actually realized
emptiness./The answer is that there was a disciple/Of Nagarjuna whose coming/Was
foretold by Those Gone to Bliss:/And who saw reality, the truth./And this was
Chandrakirti./Within thi instructions passed down/From him lies perfect
enlightenment,/But nowhere else will you find it.

<AndreaLe>	Now you may ask whether there was anyone/Who actually realized
emptiness./The answer is that there was a disciple/Of Nagarjuna whose coming/Was
foretold by Those Gone to Bliss:/And who saw reality, the truth./And this was
Chandrakirti./Within the instructions passed down/From him lies perfect
enlightenment,/But nowhere else will you find it.

<AndreaLe>	(fixed a typo)

<AnneS>	When does Kent's class start?

<pattiloun>	thank you Geshe-la, and all classmates.

<AnneS>	Thank you Ted and Andrea and everybody.

<mellon>	Will you please send Kent our love?

<PeteUlint>	thanks all, have a happy weekend... eat lots of cake!

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<pattiloun>	g'night all!

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