Tibetan Translators Course, Chat Transcript
2004-10-18
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<AndreaLe> Hi
<PeteUlint> Hi Andrea
<JRigzin> HI There
<PattiZ> Hey howdy
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<PattiZ> Looks like last week was all Uma Chidun (haven't caught up
with the audio yet), any guesses as to what we are doing tonight?
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<AndreaLe> no idea
<PattiZ> i love a mystery
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<AndreaLe> hi anne
<Anne> Hi Andrea and everybody
<Anne> I got all my various download problems solved this week. Thanks
to everybody who helped.
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<PeteUlint> It'd be kinda interesting to see a picture of the room at
DM where this class is held, just to get a visual. Anybody take any pictures
yet?
<Anne> Anthony, Thanks so much for the ACIP index site with all the
texts in both Tib and ACIP. I got it to work this week; it's great!
<TedLemon> Ben's got a ton of pictures.
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<AndreaLe> I think Benjamin has taken some photos -- we'll probably get
them online sometime after the term ends.
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<PeteUlint> Cool, I'll watch the bboards.
<PattiZ> that would be great. hi David..and howdy to Brandi
<DavidFish> hi from bran and wishes you could join us for
thanksgiving--let's e-mail about it.
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<PeteUlint> Is friday the last day of this class or next monday? I
heard Sunday is the end of semester, but we missed a day.
<PattiZ> well, i may have some personal good news,..a move to new
mexico in the near future.
<AndreaLe> This coming Friday is the last translation class this term.
<Anne> The class is ending already??
<AndreaLe> New Mexico? Cool!
<AndreaLe> It's a 5-week course, three times a year.
<DavidFish> cool, but not in lieu of thanksgiving.
<JRigzin> I can't believe the first term is over so soon
<Anne> Bummer that it's ending.
<DavidFish> that's samsara
<PattiZ> does the next session begin in January?
<Anne> You know what they say about samsara.
<AndreaLe> Yes, but it's good to have a break. It's been kind of
grueling here at DM.
<JRigzin> I suppose it will give me the chance to get all the new
vocabulary memorized before January though. So, a silver lining...
<Anne> Thanks for all your hard work there at DM
<PeteUlint> I second that!
<AndreaLe> It's not the translator course that's been grueling -- it's
all the driving back and forth, and classes or debate every night, etc.
<JRigzin> how far do you live from dmu?
<AndreaLe> It's good, and it's why Ted and I moved to Arizona, but
it'll be nice to unwind a bit.
<Anne> You're very fortunate, though.
<AndreaLe> Ted and I live in Tucson, two hours from DMU.
<JRigzin> wow, that's lots of driving!
<AndreaLe> We sleep here on weekends for the courses, and there are
other courses in Tucson during the week.
<JRigzin> sounds pretty full time
<AndreaLe> Namely "Introduction to Sanskrit", which is why I wasn't
here on Friday.
<AndreaLe> I'd been missing Friday Sanskrit for Translation class, but
I'm really digging Sanskrit and Ted offered to cover me on Fridays.
<Anne> Where are you taking Sanskrit?
<AndreaLe> DMU Tucson.
<DavidFish> sanskrit's pretty full time doing it seriously so i can't
imagine cumulatively....
<Anne> Very cool.
<AndreaLe> Also a five-week course.
<AndreaLe> Audio online at hhtp://www.dmes.org/sanskrit
<Anne> Same thing as this?
<AndreaLe> Sanskrit has been my biggest time commitment, coursewise.
<AndreaLe> It's not webcast -- we just record the audio for later.
<AndreaLe> We're also videotaping it.
<JRigzin> I was teaching a "Tibetan Alphabet weekend" Got thorugh the
whole alphabet, superscripts, subscripts, pre and suffixes. They did great, I
was really proud. Eight hours over 3 days
<AndreaLe> Wow, excellent!
<AndreaLe> Where are you, JRigzin?
<JRigzin> Toronto
<JRigzin> now we have weekly classes on Sundays. I wanted them to get
the alphabet down fast though so that they didn't peter out before getting
through that part
<AndreaLe> Ted has posted the updated translation of Uma Chidun...
<JRigzin> I"ve seen a video of Geshe-la teaching it, and used a lot of
his stuff. Very helpful
<Anne> Where is the updated translation posted?
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<chukyi> Hi everyone. We are starting late.
<PeteUlint> Hi Chukyi-hla!
<Abelveram> hello friends where I can get that video that you are
talking about
<chukyi> Hey Pete. It's great to see your name on the list!
<AndreaLe> Anne, still trying to find out where the translation is
posted.
<Anne> Thanks.
<robbi> hi V. Chukyi-hla!
<AndreaLe> Busy Ted says it's "online" but I can't find it.
<Anne> If you can't, I can't!
<PattiZ> "online " is a big place.
<AndreaLe> I'll try to get details once he gets Geshe-la's computer all
set up.
<PeteUlint> Are these announcements over audio something we need to
know about? Can't quite hear 'em.
<DavidFish> anyone know which text we're on and where we're starting?
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<anthonyde> geshle did say we'd continue the Overview? - starting with
RAB BYED DANG PO LAS
<DavidFish> thanks anthony
<anthonyde> my pleasure, i thinkn it's between 3a and 3b on the doc.
provided
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<chukyi> oops didn't mean to change the topic.
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<AndreaLe> OK, you can get Uma Chidun translation at
http://www.dmes.org/tibtrans/UmaChidun-20041014.rtf
<Anne> Thanks.
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<AndreaLe> Geshe-la is drawing Tibetan letters in Windows Paint, and
then he started moving the pen around like John Madden drawing football plays
:-)
<TedLemon> I wonder if it's possible to overdose on smart pills...
<AndreaLe> (AKA jelly beans)
<chukyi> You guys should have some sugar treats
<PattiZ> peanut butter m&ms
<robbi> hot cocoa
<PeteUlint> only pumpkin seeds for me. :-(
<TedLemon> Black Raspberry ice cream?
<robbi> yum!
<chukyi> I'm going to Patti's house
<PattiZ> come on over!
<Anne> Can I come, too?
<PattiZ> absolutely!
<Anne> Thanks!
<AndreaLe> Geshe-la seems extra punchy tonight...
<Anne> Jelly beans.
<TedLemon> It's the smart pills.
<chukyi> We are all punchy
<EllyvdPas> It's been a long month...
<Anne> He has a good system for teaching tones.
<chukyi> Yes!
<anthonyde> it's truly awesome!
<TedLemon> Yah, it's a real privilege to get this from him.
<Anne> Yes, it is.
<TedLemon> He wiggles his eyebrows when he does the brazilian
stewardess column, btw. :')
<Anne> Which is the Brax Stew column?
<TedLemon> Third column.
<TedLemon> Also the 's' in lama supa.
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<Anne> Where does that come from?
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<JRigzin> I always include the brazilian stewardess when I teach it
now, and it works like a charm!
<TedLemon> It's a long story - I think it's in about class four or
five.
<Anne> I'll go back and look!
<TedLemon> I'm hoping to get a copy of a video he did where he taught
all this stuff.
<Anne> Can you put the video online?
<PeteUlint> I'd love to see that.
<JRigzin> It's excellent
<TedLemon> When I get it, yes, although it might not be useful other
than at DVD resolution.
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<AndreaLe> He's drawing an exception Z + L underneath, pronouced NDA
<Anne> I didn't know about the n before the z. Where does that come
from?
<Anne> Oh, is it just in mediaal position. Not as an initial?
<TedLemon> It's just a weird rule, I guess.
<TedLemon> No,it's initial. Like dawa, the moon.
<Anne> ndawa?
<TedLemon> Yah.
<Anne> huh.
<TedLemon> Woo, thanks for asking that - that helped me a lot!Q
<AndreaLe> To the text, Batman!
<AndreaLe> Looks like Uma Chidun.
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<AndreaLe> Starting with RAB BYED DANG PO LAS and ending with GZHAG
'THAD TSUL BSTAN,
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<AndreaLe> GMR: His next book, _The Refutation of Argument_, picks up
from the first chapter of the same work, and goes more specifically into how the
entire system of positive objects and negative objects is also still quite
correct.
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<AndreaLe> Next section DBU MA RIN CHEN until LAM DU BSTAN PA'I PHYIR
<AndreaLe> GMR: And the two works called _A String of Jewels of the
Middle Way_ and _Sixty Lines of Reasoning_ demonstrate that the wisdom which
perceives suchness--the wisdom which avoids the two ...
<AndreaLe> ... which avoids the two extremes by asserting that things
can exist nominally and still lack any nature of their own--is in fact the path
that liberates us.
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<AndreaLe> Next is ZHIB MO RNAMS (which GMR corrects to ZHIB MO RNAM)
until ZHE NA YOD DE,
<JRigzin> how do you replace something with a hard return? I just
tried it, and it took the commas out, but removed the space between the 2 words
<anthonyde> ZHIB MO RNAM 'THAG
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<TedLemon> I think you need to use regular expressions, or whatever the
MS Word equivalent is.
<AndreaLe> GMR: "If _Smashing Things to Fine Dust_ refutes sixteen
different logical terms," you may ask, "then what are those sixteen terms?"
<JRigzin> okay, thanks
<AndreaLe> Next the author quotes a verse:
<AndreaLe> Starts with ,TSAD MA and ends TSIG DON BCU DRUG GO
<anthonyde> geshe la has already translated these 16 in Course 13 - The
Art of Reasoning?
<AndreaLe> GMR: Here are the sixteen terms of logic:/Correct
perception; the object considered;/Doubt; necessity; philosophical
school;/Branch; logic; establishment;/Debate; statement; refutation;
opponent;/False logic; logical statement;/Reason; and termination.
<Anne> Are there traces of the other courses he's taught online
somewhere?
<AndreaLe> http://www.world-view.org
<Anne> thanks.
<AndreaLe> He's looking up GZHAL BYA near THE TSOM
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<AndreaLe> GMR put "[dpe?]" between "necessity;" and "philosophical
school"
<AndreaLe> GMR put "[conn?]" between "refutation;" and "opponent" --
short for "connect?"
<AndreaLe> After "logical statement" he put "[tsig ngor? tsig dor?]"
<AndreaLe> And puh "[ltag chod?]" between "Reason" and "; and
termination"
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<AndreaLe> Found something in Perfection of Wisdom stuff...
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<AndreaLe> He put a "x2" after the "dpe?", now that it's shown up in
two other texts.
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<AndreaLe> Changed "Branch" to "Parts"
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<AndreaLe> Added "x2 refutation by the opponent" after the "conn?"
<AndreaLe> Replaced "logical statement" with "their words"
<AndreaLe> Added "x2" after "ltag chod?"
<AndreaLe> Looking up LTAG CHOD
<AndreaLe> in a dictionary
<Anne> What's the name of the dictionary?
<AndreaLe> not know
<Anne> Is it Tib-Tib?
<AndreaLe> Anne, he answers your question
<TedLemon> tzing dzur chenmo (roughly)
<Anne> Oh. I have that one. It's great.
<TedLemon> Kind of a depressing thought, though, how it wasmade.
<Anne> Tib-Chi
<JRigzin> i think "tsig dzod", "word treasury"
<Anne> Hard to believe, really.
<JRigzin> mdzod, i think
<TedLemon> Right, treasure-box
<TedLemon> or treasury
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<TedLemon> Check out Elliot Pattison.
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<JRigzin> who's that?
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<PeteUlint> "The Skull Mantra" guy, right?
<JRigzin> oh, yeah. i started reading that in Tibet this summer, but
gave it away
<AndreaLe> changed dpe to x3
<Anne> It would be great to have the VNC working.
<AndreaLe> GTAN PHAN
<AndreaLe> typo
<AndreaLe> conn? x3
<AndreaLe> Next term, we hope
<Anne> cool.
<anthonyde> how could you ever accurately translate this kind of text
without access to the database geshe l is using? it's a pretty amazing tool.
<TedLemon> Yup.
<AndreaLe> Jackpot!
<AndreaLe> DGOS PA
<AndreaLe> DPE
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<PeteUlint> is there a technical reason why its difficult to distribute
gopher? Something that we can help with?
<TedLemon> It's on the ACIP CD.
<TedLemon> It's a DOS program. You need to be a bit of a geek to
install it.
<AndreaLe> refutation by the opponent
<TedLemon> It runs under FreeDOS under Linux, BTW.
<AndreaLe> LTAG CHOD confirmed
<AndreaLe> "false refutation"
<TedLemon> Trick is getting it a copy of the database that it can
search...
<PeteUlint> OH. So it is sort've available. YEa, I guess its pretty
useless without the DB.
<TedLemon> That's okay on Windows, though. I think it's challenging on
Win98 and Win2k, but it works on XP.
<EllyvdPas> we need to make the db available.
<TedLemon> Gech, we still haven't done that. :'(
<EllyvdPas> I have it if there's a way to upload it.
<DavidFish> Q--does it have anything to do with release v. is that the
program but not the db?
<TedLemon> I can upload it - I just keep forgetting.
<TedLemon> We have an ACIP 4/5 DB in Geshe Michael's layout, which is
different than the ACIP CD.
<TedLemon> You need that _and_ gofer to do these searches.
<PeteUlint> I've got fast pipes, I can download the DB and burn it to
CD for folks with slow connections.
<Anne> I hope one of you can upload the db.
<EllyvdPas> The database that geshe la uses is set up in his own system
and it's not the same as teh ACIP DB, in terms of the way it's organized
<TedLemon> Christie says "Hi!", Anne!
<Anne> Hi to Christie!
<EllyvdPas> He set his up so it could be searched with gofer, the way
he's deomonstrating in class
<TedLemon> I'm probably not going to be able to relay that right now...
:'}
<zorie1> Elly do you have the DB on your mac? use virt pc?
<TedLemon> I'm working on a reimplementation of gofer, initial target
is Mac, although there's no reason it won't work on Windows also.
<Anne> Pete, I'm on dial up, so I'd love it if youcould send me a CD.
<EllyvdPas> I have it here and anyone who wants it can have it. I have
virt. pc, but not gofer working on it, but you could try.
<TedLemon> Thanks, Pete - that's a really great offer!Q
<TedLemon> s/Q//
<zorie1> Thanks, Elly-hla
<DavidFish> me too, pete, i'd love a cd--davidbfishman@cs.com
<EllyvdPas> I could make a cd of the database that Geshe la is using if
anyone wants to send me their address.
<robbi> i could use one too Pete
<Anne> astevens@alumni.middlebury.edu
<JRigzin> jrigzintute@gmail.com - I'd love it if you could send it
Elly, thanks
<PeteUlint> No prob Anne, David, I'll email you. Anybody else who
wants just please email me at pulintz@umich.edu with your address.
<Anne> Thanks, Pete.
<robbi> yes, thank you very much!
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<TedLemon> So Pete, wait for the one we upload - the regular ACIP CD
won't work.
<robbi> thanks again Andrea and Ted, for all your hard work! we really
appreciate it.
<PattiZ> so, we are going with translating the work and then adding a
footnote with corrections?
<PeteUlint> Okay. If theres a place I can sftp it from, or whatever,
that'd be great. Or just let me know how to get it.
<robbi> good night all...
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<JRigzin> good night, thanks as always
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<AndreaLe> Bye!
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