Tibetan Translators Course, Chat Transcript
2004-10-11
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<PeteUlint> Hi Andrea.
<AndreaLe> Hi! Sorry I'm late.
<AndreaLe> Flat tire.
<AndreaLe> Ted was here though.
<AndreaLe> And so is Geshe-la!
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<JRigzin> Happy Canadian Thanksgiving, everyone!
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<AndreaLe> Can you hear OK?
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<PeteUlint> Sound is great. Anybody else having trouble with VNC
peaking out their processor?
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<Anne> Hi, everyone.
<JRigzin> yeah, i can't usually use it and the chat at the same time,
it locks it up[
<Mickey> great sound
<DavidFish> hi all.
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<TedLemon> VNC maxing out your processor is because you've got a bum
playback.
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<JRigzin> what do you mean by that, Ted?
<TedLemon> There's not much we can do about the VNC stuff this term.
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<Anne> Andrea, I can't tell if I'm on chat & VNC now or cached from
last week.
<TedLemon> I'm trying to feed it to you as fast as it will go, but that
tends to stimulate a bug in the VNC viewer.
<TedLemon> The VNC you seenow would be from last week.
<AndreaLe> Are you hearing from me now, Anne?
<JRigzin> i see
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<AndreaLe> I am chatting on October 11
<Anne> on chat - yes.
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<Anne> How about VNC?
<AndreaLe> The VNC currently says MA TI BH'A D'I PA....
<AndreaLe> He's looking at Uma Chidun
<TedLemon> It doesn't say that, actually. It's still on last week.
<AndreaLe> We should ask Geshe-la to display the date on his machine as
well as the time ;-)
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<Anne> I have a dictionary on VNC. Looks like DOS.
<AndreaLe> Ted says it's on last week.
<Anne> How do I get onto this week?
<AndreaLe> VNC is still hit or miss... the important visual link is the
chat window.
<AndreaLe> There is no "this week".
<AndreaLe> The server is showing old data.
<AndreaLe> Sorry!
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<Anne> Now I have soemthing from the Derge Tengyur on.
<AndreaLe> Ted is hoping to come up with a better visual component for
next term.
<Anne> So I should just forget it for now?
<AndreaLe> yes, sorry
<AndreaLe> You'll hear on the chat if it suddenly starts magically
working
<Anne> Ok. The concept is great! Thanks.
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<AndreaLe> Is that Christopher Kelley?
<Christoph> No, Coriat
<AndreaLe> Oh, OK.
<AndreaLe> Does everyone have the latest translations? They're at
http://www.dmes.org/tibtrans/Translation.zip
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<Christoph> yes thanks
<TedLemon> So I make no promises about it, but the VNC is up now.
<anthonyde> Andrea, does it include the last classes translation?
<TedLemon> I mean really no promises... :'} Mostly I'm using it for
archival purposes.
<AndreaLe> Yes Anthony
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<AndreaLe> He's searching on ^p^p and replacing with $$
<AndreaLe> That's to get rid of the double returns
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<Anne> What is the Uma Chi Dun?
<AndreaLe> Now he's replacing "^p" with " "
<AndreaLe> Uma Chidun is the monastic commentary on the main text we're
translating.
<AndreaLe> It's from the 18th century, I think.
<Anne> What monastery? What does monastic commentary mean?
<AndreaLe> The main text is Gongpa Rabsel (Illumination of the True
Thought) by Je Tsongkapa
<AndreaLe> Geshe-la describes it in the audio.
<IrmaGomes> I guess a monk from a monastery wrote the comentary, Anne
<AndreaLe> I think the commentary is from a lama at Sera (not positive
which one).
<IrmaGomes> Gary, did you get my tapes? ;)
<Anne> Irma and Andrea, Thanks for helping to situate the newby.
<AndreaLe> It's probably in the homeworks (hint hint) at
http://www.dmes.org/tibtrans
<Anne> It takes hours to down
<AndreaLe> If you're not taking the course for credit, you can just
look at the answer keys for this background ingo.
<AndreaLe> info
<Gary_> Irma, we did get the tapes. Thanks very much.
<Anne> It takes hours to download from there. I tried several times and
gave up.
<AndreaLe> He's translationg "NA MO MANYDZU GO sh'A YA"
<AndreaLe> in Uma Chidun (not Gongpa Rabsel)
<AndreaLe> GMR: "I bow down to Gentle Voice"
<Anne> Is the Tibetan of this text available somewhere? Elly sent me
the Tib of Gongpa Rabsel.
<AndreaLe> More completely, he typed "Namo Manjughoshaya,/I bow down to
Gentle Voice."
<Anne> And how come we're on a different text? Is there a way I could
have known this ahead of time?
<chukyi> Anne it's on www.dmes.org/tibtrans/
<Anne> Chukyi, Thanks. I'll go look.
<AndreaLe> It's the links on top. There's a roman version at
http://www.dmes.org/tibtrans/Translation.zip
<Gary_> Irma, can you email us your phone number
(gary@enlightenedbusiness.com)
<Anne> I'd like the Tibetan script version. Is that available
somewhere?
<IrmaGomes> OK
<AndreaLe> He's translating from "GRANGS MED GSUM DU" until "POR PHYAG
TSAL LO"
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<AndreaLe> GMR: I bow down to the Lord of the Able Ones,/the absolute
lord of the spoken word,/who completed the two collections/over the length of
three countless eons,/and thus won the three holy bodies;/then performed the
highest of enlightened deeds,/turning the wheel three times/for disciples of
three different ways.
<AndreaLe> Anne, if we can't answer your setup questions during class,
you might be able to find help on the tranlation course bulletin board, at
http://www.dmes.org/trans-bboard
<chukyi> Anne, there are porgrams that can translate the transcriptoion
into tibetan script...
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<anthonyde> btw, you can cust and past by 1- highlighting the text, 2-
right click, 3- click on window, 4 - save text, 5- cancel, then right click
paste on your own word doc.
<Anne> Chukyi, Yea, I thought I had a program that put ACIP into Tib on
an old computer. Can I download it from somewhere?
<AndreaLe> He's translating from "RAB 'BYAMS ZHING DU" until "LA'ANG
MGOS PHYAG TSAL"
<chukyi> try the ACIP website, anne, or I can see if I've got it
somewhere to send you
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<AndreaLe> GMR: I bow down as well to his two sons, the princes,/who
shine in the midst of a mass/of the princes and princesses of the Victors--/the
two who took on the heavy burden/of freeing infinite beings in infinite
worlds/with their ...
<AndreaLe> He's talking about RLABS CHEN (often mistranslated)
<Anne> I'll go check acip site
<anthonyde> Anne, go two thirds down this page
http://www.asianclassics.org/download/SungEng.html, and look for the index
number S0021 - then dowload the tibetan script version
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<PeteUlint> 'incredible proficiency'?
<Anne> Anthony, Thanks. I'm off to check.
<daniela> resounding?
<AndreaLe> "... with their extraordinarily potent deeds."
<Anne> "page cannot be found"
<AndreaLe> (Daniela, there was a rumble of support in the room for
"resounding", but Geshe-la had already settled on "extraordinarily potent".
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<AndreaLe> GMR footnote: [$The two sons here would be the two principal
disciples of Gautama Buddha: Shariputra and Maudgalyayana.]
<AndreaLe> (I might have misspelled the second one, because GMR
scrolled up too fast for me)
<AndreaLe> From RGYAL BA'I to RGYAL GYUR CIG
<Christoph> Maudgalyana
<AndreaLe> GMR: May you always be victorious, Nagarjuna Heart,/Without
equal on this entire planet/in explaining, in general, the system/of the
Victors--and more especially/the essence of the profound,/dependent origination.
<anthonyde> nagarjuna?
<AndreaLe> From ,YAB SRAS DGONGS PA to ZHABS LA 'DUD
<Christoph> Asanga
<AndreaLe> GMR: I throw myself down as well/at the holy feet of that
highest adept,/Buddhapalita, who opened the door/of the system that
interprets/the true thought of the father and son/as being that of the
Consequence group./I also bow at the feet at the one/who kept this system in the
world: ...
<AndreaLe> ... the Moon that connot be eclipsed...
<AndreaLe> ... the Moon that cannot be eclipsed,/and I kneel as well to
Shantideva.
<AndreaLe> Footnote: [$ The "Moon"here is Master Chandrakirti; the
first part of his name, _chandra_, means "moon" in Sanskrit.]
<AndreaLe> sorry about my typoes!
<AndreaLe> From ,RGYAL BA'I MKHEN BRTZE to LA SNYING NAS 'DUD
<AndreaLe> New footnote, before the last one: [$ The "father and son"
here are Arya Nagarjuna and his disciple Aryadeva.]
<daniela> genuflect?
<Christoph> Doing great, Andrea - v. helpful since we don't have VNC
<DavidFish> supplicate
<AndreaLe> GMR: I bow from my heart to that highest guide/of beings in
all the three different realms:/to the one we know as Lobsang Drakpa--/the
divine angel Gentle Voice,/all the knowledge and love of the Victors
combined,/masquerading as form of a spiritual friend/dressed in the saffron
robes.
<AndreaLe> oops, masquerading in the form (not "as the form")
<AndreaLe> footnote [$ "Lobsang Drakpa" was the ordination name of Je
Tsongkapa (1357-1419), author of _Illumination of the True Thought_.]
<AndreaLe> From ,DE SRAS TRU BO to GSAL SGRON ME 'BRI
<JRigzin> take the dust from the feet
<anthonyde> pay homage, show respect
<DavidFish> prostrate
<daniela> heart master for spiritual guide?
<TedLemon> Nice try! :'}
<AndreaLe> GMR: I fall first at the feet of the entire lineage/of
spiritual guides descended from/his two holy sons, the princes;/and then
especially I touch/the holy feet of my own Lamas,/the ones who have paid me the
priceless kindness/of granting me this teaching.
<AndreaLe> removed "the ones" in the second to last line
<AndreaLe> got rid of "own" before "Lamas"
<AndreaLe> "the holy feet of my Lamas,/who have shown me the priceless
kindness/of granting me this teaching.
<daniela> perhaps present tense instead of past since the teaqching is
still alive?
<DavidFish> inestimable kindness?
<AndreaLe> [$ _His two holy sons_: Refers to the two principal
disciples of Je Tsongkapa: ...
<TedLemon> Looks like you triggered a good thought, Daniela!
<AndreaLe> He's adding to the verse: And then now I shall write/this
lamp to illumine/the _Illumination of the True Thought_.
<AndreaLe> Changed "and then now" to "and so now"
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<AndreaLe> Back to the footnote: Je Tsongkapa: Gyaltsab Je Darma
Rinchen (1364-1432) and Kedrup Je Gelek Pelsang (1385-1438).]
<AndreaLe> (GMR was looking up the dates in the database)
<AndreaLe> From ,DE LA 'DIR BSTAN to PA DANG GNYIS LAS,
<DavidFish> clarification as another word for commentary?
<Christoph> "exposition" for commentary?
<DavidFish> or interpretation?
<AndreaLe> GMR: And so now I will present a treatise on that great
classical commentary, _Entering the Middle Way_, in accordance with the author's
own explanation of it. We will proceed in two steps: a preliminary, general
overview of the work; and then separate explanations of selected portions.
<AndreaLe> From DANG PO LA to LA' JUG RIGS TE,
<AndreaLe> GMR: Here is the first. You and I are people who have
decided that it's not enough to simply be content with the pleasures of this
current life. ...
<Anne> Did anyone else loose the audio?
<Anne> That's lose.
<Christoph> Can still hear GMR typing
<AndreaLe> GMR: ... We strive for happiness in the world beyond, and
more. And so it's right that we should take shelter in the totally enlightened
one, and thereby enter into his teachings.
<AndreaLe> It's been quiet typing for a long time.
<Anne> Thanks. I lost the audio about 4 minutes ago. Tried
re-connecting.
<Anne> Oh there he is. Thanks.
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<AndreaLe> Moved SPEL MAR BSTOD PA LAS to the last chunk.
<JRigzin> spel mar bstod pa - (RY) Interwoven Praises; by Matricheta
and Dignaga
<JRigzin> that's Rangjung Yeshe
<AndreaLe> GMR: ...and thereby enter into his teachings. As
_Interwoven Praises_ says,
<AndreaLe> (Thanks JRigzin!)
<JRigzin> thanks Ranjung Yeshe!
<JRigzin> how far does this bit of text go until?
<AndreaLe> From GTING MTHA' MED to... 'ZHES GSUNGS PA'I PHYIR,
<AndreaLe> (three verses)
<JRigzin> thanks
<AndreaLe> He changed a few words in that last sentence, but they
scrolled off before I got a chance to convey it.
<AndreaLe> I urge you to download the "official" translation from
http://www.dmes.org/tibtrans/Translation.zip instead of my quickie typo version.
<AndreaLe> He's doing the first verse 'GTING MTHA' MED to NI LUS ZOS
PAS,
<daniela> here we are adrift in the boundless ocean
<AndreaLe> Here we are adrift alone/on a shoreless ocean,/the cycle of
pain./The savage sharks/of desire and such/rip away at our bodies.
<daniela> of cyclic existence.
<JRigzin> sea monsters!!!
<AndreaLe> ,DE RING GANG LA SKYABS to KUN TU GNAS GYUR PA,
<AndreaLe> GMR; Who can we turn to now/for shelter?/To the one who is
totally free/of each and every fault there is./To the one who possesses/every
good quality, in every way.
<AndreaLe> Now we're on ,GAL TE SEMS SHIG to 'ZHES GSUNGS PA'I PHYIR
<AndreaLe> (Now he's looking at the database to see about a suspected
carving error.)
<AndreaLe> Database search... DENIED
<AndreaLe> Tried the Sungbum, tried the Tengyur,
<AndreaLe> GMR: And so if you have any mind at all/you must go for
shelter to him;/you must praise him, honor him,/and come to stay in his
teachings.
<AndreaLe> There's a dispute on "mind"...
<JRigzin> any sense at all?
<AndreaLe> ... settled by Christie-la :-)
<AndreaLe> Nope, sense was rejected.
<JRigzin> ah, we need a crowd mic too :-)
<TedLemon> Ooh, sorry.
<AndreaLe> Next section, from 'JUG BYE RGYAL BA'I to BSTAN PA GNYIS,
<AndreaLe> GMR: The teaching into which we should enter, moreover,
comes in two parts: that teaching which is physical, and the teaching in the
form of realizations.
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<daniela> teaching through realisations?
<AndreaLe> We'll get the new files up ASAP :-)
<chukyi> no realizing the teachings in your own heart, daniela
<JRigzin> thanks again, you guys. inspiring as always. more gas in
the tank for the coming week!
<PeteUlint> Thanks all very much. Have a happy week.
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<daniela> thanks very much : ))
<Christoph> Thanks everyone
<robbi> yay, thanks indeed everyone---take care, 'see' you next time!
<AmandaNoo> Thanks again so much xx
<DavidFish> thanks again so very much--and for everything else you do.
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<Anne> Andrea, It takes me hours to download from the site. Is that
normal?
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<AndreaLe> Anne, download what?
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<anthonyde> Thanks Ted and Andrea! bye for now
<Anne> Course postings. Audio files, hw.
<AndreaLe> The audio might take a while, but the rest shouldn't take
very long.
<Anne> Ok. I'll try again. Thanks so much.
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<Anne> I'm still trying to find the Tibetan script of the Uma chi dun.
<AndreaLe> http://www.dmes.org/tibtrans/Translation.zip for example is
less than 500 Kb
<AndreaLe> I don't know how to help you with that -- try the bullet
board.
<Anne> That downloaded ok.
<AndreaLe> bulletin board
<AndreaLe> Bye then!
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